How do you encourage people in your organization? Dr. Paul White is a Psychologist and the Co-Author of β€œThe 5 Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace”. In this episode, he dives into each of the principles he discusses in his book and shares the best ways to implement them and make your employees feel respected and valued, while also bringing up the question: should you buy gifts for your employees?

πŸŽ™οΈTalking Points:

(1:33) Are his workplace principles still relevant today?

(2:36) What are the 5 Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace?

(17:52) What percentage of the workforce prefers words of affirmation?

(21:13) Birthday gifts in the workplace

(26:03) What’s changed post-pandemic?

πŸ”—Connect with Dr. Paul White:

πŸ”—Connect with Tom:Β 

Tom Finn:

Hey there and thanks for tuning into the Talent Empowerment Podcast. We're here to help you love your job. We unpack the tools and tactics of successful humans to guide you towards your own career empowerment. I am your purpose driven host, Tom Finn. And on the show today, we have my friend, Dr. Paul White, Dr. Paul, welcome to the show.

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Dr. Paul White:

Thanks Tom, I'm excited to be with you.

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Tom Finn:

Well, we are excited to have you. And let me take a minute to introduce you to the work of Dr. Paul White and introduce you to him. He has over 20 years of experience as a psychologist. He's a highly sought after keynote speaker and leadership trainer who specializes in helping organizations improve their workplace culture and boost staff morale. Now, if you don't know his work, he's the co-author of four books, including the bestseller. The Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace, written with his good friend, Dr. Gary Chapman. If you don't know Gary Chapman, he was the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, The Five Love Languages, and they have sold together over 550,000 copies of their book. It's been translated into 25 languages. I can't wait to get into this. So let me ask this one to start us right off. Over the years, workplace dynamics and employee expectations have changed. They've evolved. The market is certainly different than it was a decade ago. How do the principles outlined in your book remain relevant today?

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Dr. Paul White:

Tom, what's fascinating to me is that our book was published in 2011, so several years ago. and the average business book sells about 4,000 copies in its lifetime. And we've sold a lot of books and we continue to sell 4,000 books a month. So it seems like it is relevant. And the point is that people want to feel valued. Yes, we need to motivate ourselves. We need to persevere and encourage ourselves. But at some point, we also want to know that somebody out there values what we do and who we are. tool to help that work and be impactful. A lot of places, a lot of people, you know, say thanks and give compliments and there's reward and recognition programs, but what we found is those don't really work because they don't send the message in the way that's meaningful to the recipient.

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Tom Finn:

Fair. So let's get into it. What are the five languages of appreciation in the workplace?

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Dr. Paul White:

Well, they're actually the same in name as the five love languages, but they look like, they look differently in the workplace than they do in personal relationships. So you have words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service, tangible gifts, and yes, even physical touch, which is always one that people want to find out what is that about. So.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, let's go right there because look, there is a whole movement around being more respectful of each other and sort of highlighting that there have been some decisions made, mostly by men in the past, that have been not in alignment with the way we should be treating each other as human beings. And so this idea of physical touch in the workplace, I mean, it's got to be terrifying to leaders. So help us. help us understand what that should look like in an effective workplace.

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, when I talk to HR leaders, we tease that we have paramedics in the room because they're going to faint and say, oh, we're all going to get sued, you know. But physical touch in this model is just really spontaneous celebration. It happens. It differs regionally and culturally, and we can talk about that in a second, but it's often, you know, it's a high five when you finish a project. It's a fist bump when you solve a problem, maybe a congratulatory handshake. And actually a pat on the back has been found to be the most accepted cross-cultural form of sort of congratulations physically. But, you know, I lived in Atlanta for a while and down there they give side hugs and that kind of stuff. In New York and New Jersey, they sort of nod across the room and just say, hey, you know, that's, that's about as close as like get there. But you know we have our Latin and Hispanic friends and like we use our work in Southern Europe and you know they're more physically demonstrative like to you know maybe have a kiss on the cheek kind of greeting and so it's just that but clearly it's always that the recipient is always the one who determines what's appropriate. I've had people say I don't want anybody to touch me anytime anywhere and that's fine that's up to them but we just want to and can be appropriate when done in a healthy relationship and in a healthy way.

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Tom Finn:

I love what you said there, just to clarify the point. You can have physical touch in the workplace as long as it's high fives, handshakes, pat on the back, knuckles, in a safe environment. But is there something that you have to do in advance of that? Is there some sort of relationship building mechanism that needs to be there so you don't offend?

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, I mean sometimes it really is spontaneous. I mean I had a friend said, you know, we finished a project, my assistant put her hand up for a high five and what am I supposed to do? You know, say sorry, I can't touch you. So it depends who initiates it. And also you sort of observe what's going on, but obviously if it's more like a hug of congratulations, you say, hey, it would be all right if I gave you a hug. You're okay with that? And let the other person choose.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, easy way to make the conversation a little bit more natural. I think most people are okay with high fives and handshakes and that kind of behavior in the workplace as well is usually pretty common. So let's go through starting at the top with love language or workplace language. Number one, how does it differ from the love language?

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, so words of affirmation are just that they're words, they're... that are affirming. And one of the things that we talk about is that, you know, appreciation is different in our mind than employee recognition. Research has shown over 90% of all companies or organizations have some form of employee recognition, which could be as small as getting an automatic email for your birthday or something like that. And most recognition programs are around performance, which is fine and good if it's designed right and implemented. But appreciation, we believe, is about the person. that employees and team members are more than just producers. We're all people, we're human. And so there are things that we can value and affirm about one another that aren't necessarily production related, which really makes it helpful because not everybody's a star, right? And so you wanna be able to affirm people. So words of affirmation, we teach a model of just using a person's name. We like to hear our name, tell specifically what we value about them and why it's important to you. the organization and the client. So it could be, Brian, thanks for cleaning up after that event last night. That way it made it easy for us to be ready for our meetings this morning and didn't have to come in early to do that. So being specific about it, we have over, I don't know. 90,000 people on our newsletter list and we ask polls occasionally. We ask what people don't like to hear. And one of the things they don't like to hear is good job because it's too vague. Doesn't really say, doesn't take any thought. And the other thing just about using their name. If you're writing a note, be sure and spell their name correctly. It doesn't really send a real valid message if you misspell their name. There's a lot of ways to spell all kinds of even common names now. But words, saying it, it can be personal. one-on-one, it can be written. We found that 40% of employees don't want to go up in front of a large group to be recognized, so that can really turn negative. So you have to be careful about that.

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Tom Finn:

Well, Dr. Paul White, thank you for that deep and meaningful introduction on words of affirmation in the workplace.

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Dr. Paul White:

Thank you.

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Tom Finn:

How did I do?

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Dr. Paul White:

That's great.

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Tom Finn:

Okay, so the way that I'm thinking about this is we can go through the next one as well, because I think this is super helpful and it builds one upon the other. So let's go through number two.

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Dr. Paul White:

Sure, so the second language that we talk about is quality time. And quality time is actually one of those that has changed or is changing across generations. I'm a boomer in my days growing up in work. Quality time usually meant time with your supervisor or manager. You got sort of focused attention from either be able to share some observations, give some input, or maybe get some instruction. And that's still true for some people, but more and more with younger generations, quality time is really about time with their peers and their colleagues. Getting together, going out to lunch together, going out after work, maybe working on a project together. So. it's still valid. It's about 25% of the workforce tends to have quality time as their primary language. But I've told leaders often just because one of your team members has quality time as their language doesn't mean they want time with you. You may be wonderful, you may be great, but they're like, I've had assistants say, you know, I do not want time, individual time, with my supervisor. They're sort of intense. I'm sort of shy, but I want to do something with my friends.

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Tom Finn:

So it doesn't have to be employee-employer relationship-

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Dr. Paul White:

Correct.

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Tom Finn:

in terms of the boss and the subordinate. It really has shifted to, I wanna hang with my coworkers. I wanna chill out. I wanna go out and have a beer or just get outside of the office and do something that allows me to connect in a personal way. And I think that's so important because we live in this virtual world now. And this is one of the questions that continues to come up for leaders, which is how do I create quality time for people in a virtual environment.

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, yeah, and in fact, we did research throughout the pandemic and afterwards and tracked that. and also develop actually a version of our assessment that's solely for remote workers because the actions look differently when you're in different locations. Quality time when you're in a remote setting is really contains the core of you're sharing your time, which is a resource focused on them and in the way that's meaningful. It could be as simple as setting up a conference call or a video call just to check in with them. things about quality time, especially remotely, it's not just talking about work. One of the things that we found in our research that people that sort of came out of the pandemic better than those that didn't was that they stayed connected with their colleagues about personal issues, that what was going on with their family, you know. the sports team, how they're doing and so forth. So not just talking about work, but setting up those times and or team times. Let's say you have a video conference for your team, allowing time either at the beginning or preferably at the beginning or at the end, where people can just sit around and chat. I mean, we do that in person where people could show up earlier, stay late and talk with one another, but that's tougher to do on a video call. And so you gotta allow some space for that to talk about what's going on in their lives.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, I think that's so important. You've got to be able to be yourself and talk about some of the other things that are not work related. Uh, so that's a nice pro move for those of you that are working in remote environments, uh, set up time specifically to talk about non work. Behaviors items, interests, things you care about outside of the workplace. All right. That was number two. Let's hit number three.

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Dr. Paul White:

Three is acts of service. Acts of service is roughly one every five employees. And it's not rescuing a low performing. teammate, it's some small action that you can do that can make their day or week go better. Couple of easy examples would be, let's say you're some kind of service provider, a clinical person like a nurse or something like that. When all of a sudden a whole bunch of patients show up at once or a bunch of issues, what can you do to help them manage that okay? Take something else off of their plate. Or if you're working on a sort of time limited project coming up, the deadline's coming up, and you're having to bang away on it. What's something one of your colleagues or your supervisor could do to help you out with that, whether that's delegating a piece of it or maybe running interference for you, taking your calls, answering some emails for you so you can stay focused on the project. And access service people are interesting. I mean they have sort of the mantra in their mind of, you know, words are cheap. Don't tell me you support me, show me. And so words can actually be negative for them if you don't actually sort of throw in occasionally. And what's interesting about each of these is that it doesn't take much to have an impact as long as it's the right language and the right action within the language. We found that that's important as well. And when you do that, it really does send a message that, hey, I value you, I'm concerned about you and I wanna help you out.

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Tom Finn:

So is active service correlate to generalized teamwork? In a sense, they're looking for more teamwork. They're less inclined to be an individual contributor or they want support from others. Help me understand that piece.

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, not necessarily because I was dealing with a group of inner city administrative assistants and they said, you know. I don't want the principal or system principal coming in and touching my piles. I got my piles organized the way I want them. Access service people often are very individualistic. They know what they want, how they want it done. So you've got to ask them what needs to be done that would be helpful and how to do it their way. So it's not so much teamwork. It's more about just understanding that. you can show that you value them and support them and you appreciate them, but when they're stressed out because of their workload that you throw in and help them out a little bit.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, I think that's one of mine. I like when I'm stressed out if somebody can jump in and just take a couple of things off my plate that I can reorganize my work day, my work week to be more efficient. So for me, acts of service is right up there, uh, as one of my top components or my, my work love language, if you will. Um, let's dive into number four.

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Dr. Paul White:

So the fourth language is tangible gifts, and it's not. bonuses, raises, big vacations that you earn or whatever. It's small things that show that you're getting to know your colleagues at a personal level, what they like, what they're interested in. So, and actually the most commonly given gift at work is food. People bring in somebody's favorite cup of coffee, maybe bring in some donuts or bagels, and a way to sort of personalize that is to find out what each person likes. Like I had a team member that liked donuts or I have a team member that's gluten intolerant so if we order pizza we sure be sure and get you know a kind that she can eat. So food is there also Gift cards is the second big category. Interesting, we did some research with over 190,000 people, I think, finding out, okay, tell us about gift cards. And some people like generic gift cards, Amazon Beasts or whatever, so they can use it wherever. Other people want very specific gift cards, so they can't use it for other things, but they can only use it at their favorite bookstore or iTunes or wherever it might be. have to cost a lot of money. But in this case, it really is the saying, is the thought that counts. That's really what is important, that you're getting to know them. And it could be something like, let's say one of your team members is starting to coach their kid's soccer team. Maybe you find a website that has some videos with training activities that helps you say, hey, I know you're starting this. Thought you might be interested in that. So it's about. getting to know them as a person and letting them know that you're paying attention.

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Tom Finn:

So Tangible Gifts doesn't have to be a seven-day vacation to the Cayman Islands at the Ritz.

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Dr. Paul White:

Absolutely not. No. Very small. And it's connecting with them, what they're interested in, and maybe something a little special. We talk about chocolate is the food of the gods. And in our office, we sort of narrow it down from dark chocolate and how dark you want it, to milk chocolate. And we'll celebrate that way.

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Tom Finn:

So the last one we touched on is physical touch, which we started with. We sort of started at five, went back up to one, two, three, and four. So help us understand the percentages here of where the workforce falls. Because you gave us a couple. You said quality time was around 25%. You said acts of service was one in five. So I just assume that's 20%. So maybe let's start with words of affirmation. What percentage of the workforce falls into that bucket?

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, so it's interesting about words is that actually when people hear the word appreciation, they sort of default to words and they think that means words. And one of the key things to understand is that if you only use words to show appreciation, you're going to miss over half of your workforce in the ways that they want. Words is the largest group. It's 45 to 46 percent. And so that's a big group. And so that's a good, you know, sort of. chance to throw your dart and hit the target. But if you only use words, you're gonna miss some. So words is 40, it's actually 46. And then... What's also interesting because recognition and rewards programs use a lot of tangible gift kinds of things. That's only 7% of the workforce choose tangible gifts as their primary language. Now what's because they say, I'm often the people tell me, if I never hear any word of encouragement or affirmation, nobody ever helps me out or I don't get anything but, or. they don't help me out or spend any time with me, and I get a gift, it feels pretty impersonal. Especially if they don't have to pay any money, you know, the company pays for it, or they've earned it through points or whatever. But gifts can be helpful in use with one of the other languages. So if you know that their language is words or time, and you also bring them something in combination that sort of, that jacks up that a little bit, but it has to be really personal. One of the worst things that happens, our sort of the way the world works with gifts stupid as far as giving like Christmas baskets or food. You know it's from organization to organization. We'll eat it but it doesn't impact us really personally. So it's more about from me to maybe somebody that I work with at that organization giving them a gift. But and then giving everybody the same thing is actually negative because it is the thought that counts and it's like you didn't think enough to figure out what would be helpful to me or what. I'd like and so you know and as a speaker I don't know about you Tom I don't need any more mugs or pins with little you know candies in it that hopefully that goes by the wayside.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, at some point I hope that the holiday gift basket business just goes out of business.

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah.

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Tom Finn:

I'm just, I feel like we do it and look, I am someone who's done this before in the past too. So I'm pointing the thumb here, not the finger. But I just think it's a playbook that we use because we can't think of anything else. Not because we want to.

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Dr. Paul White:

Let me give you a clue. I have a friend who's an expert in corporate gifts. He said one of the key things is you want to give a gift when it's not expected. And if so, if you wait. Don't give them at the holidays, but wait till late January, February, when everybody served in the doldrums of winter, except for you all in Southern California. You know, then it's like, oh, what's this about? And it's just, hey, I was just thinking about you, how I value our working relationship, and here it is. And so, give it an unexpected time is going to have more impact than if you give it when everybody's expecting one.

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Tom Finn:

So what about birthday gifts? Does that fall into the same category in the corporate environment or is that something we should avoid as well?

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Dr. Paul White:

You know, that's one of those things that really depends on the relationship between the persons. So we really think about appreciation being person to person. It's not organizational. It's not driven by the organization and the org chart that, you know, you do it top down. In fact, one of the key lessons we learned over time is that... People don't want to just receive or give appreciation to their supervisor from their supervisor, but they like to hear appreciation from their colleagues and their team members because they're the people that impact day to day. And so... That freezes up from having to do it down the org chart. Also, it frees up to be able to show appreciation across departments, right? Let's say somebody in IT helps somebody in accounting with their computer glitching, and they communicate appreciation. They don't report to them, it's not required, but it's just that they're thankful that Janice came over and helped them out.

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Tom Finn:

So we've gone through words, which is 46%, quality time, which you highlighted as 25%, acts of service, which we believe to be somewhere around 20%, tangible gifts at 7%, and then we have our fifth and final physical touch. Do we have a percentage for physical touch?

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Dr. Paul White:

It's actually less than 1%. The others are rounded, but it's, yeah, it's less than 1%.

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Tom Finn:

Okay, so that makes sense. So if we're thinking about the workforce in general ways, because this is not specific to my team or your team, this is generalized over hundreds of thousands of people, we've got just less than half that really do need words to encourage them, to make them feel respected and valued. And we've got about 25% that really care about quality time. that they get to spend quality time with their coworkers. It can be done virtually. It's better maybe to be done in person when you can. And this idea of acts of service at 20%, which I'm raising my hand for that one. I'm an acts of service guy. I know myself pretty well here. It's really important to me that you don't tell me, you show me that you can support the initiatives of the organization. This whole idea around gifting I think is so funny because we tend to put a lot of weight there, but it's 7% of the population. I feel like we spend a lot of time thinking about small food things we can do and tangible gifts. And you know what I really wanna do is send Dr. Paul White another mug with some candy. He's gonna love it. He's gonna absolutely, no, he's not, by the way. He's not gonna love it. We think about that a lot more than 7%. We do, we just do. I think we overvalue the workplace, that that's the most important thing, but it's not. And then physical touch, of course, less than 1%. Although, I will tell you, at the right time, I appreciate a good high five and a good fist bump, especially in a celebratory environment where we got a win, client was retained, or client was added, or our favorite, client is super happy, right? That's always a good one as well. So as you think about the way that you have looked at this data for the last decade or so, what's been the biggest shift in the last couple of years post-pandemic?

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, let me mention one thing first. So, an obvious question that I gotta think people are thinking about, well, how do you know what people want, you know? I mean, what language is important to them? And in our culture... asking somebody, you know, how should I show you appreciation is just a weird conversation. I mean, we don’t do that.

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Tom Finn:

It is. Yeah, for sure.

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Dr. Paul White:

And so, and also you don't have enough data points to sort of observe in the workplace of how they've shown appreciation. So that's why we rely on our online assessment and have a code that comes with the book. You can buy code separately. And it identifies each person's primary language, their secondary language, their least valued learn that you need to identify the specific actions within the primary language. So that's how we solve that. Now remind me of the question that led me there.

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Tom Finn:

Well, I think what I'm trying to better understand is that this research has been going on for a decade ot so.

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Dr. Paul White:

Oh, what’s changed over time?

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Tom Finn:

What's really changed post-pandemic?

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Dr. Paul White:

So what's interesting, because we have a cross cultures and we do generational research and so forth, and that. The languages retain their ranking as far as words being first, time, second. Access Services is sort of a close third and Tangible Gifts in Touch are way down. But as the generations in the workforce are getting younger, quality time is bumping up. It used to be about 25%. Now for younger workers, and I'm going to say 35 and below, it's about 35%. And a lot of that comes from words. 38, 40%. So there's more emphasis on quality time and specifically that collegial interaction. So what's interesting, and during COVID I had to do this, is that it's not just about time with me, but amongst themselves, and they don't always want me involved. I mean, I'm a great guy, I'm a lot of fun, but letting them hang out and so devising times and activities for them to do things together that I may not participate in. And so being able to facilitate that, whether that's a meal together or a game time, whatever it might be, can be helpful.

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Tom Finn:

So you touched on something that I want to double click on here. You touched on the supervisor not being invited to some sort of event, some sort of area that falls under the acts of quality time, essentially. So how should people do that in a thoughtful way? Because look, here's the deal. I don't want to hurt your feelings, right?Β 

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Dr. Paul White:

Right.

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Tom Finn:

Paul, I don't want you there at the happy hour, I don't want to hurt your feelings either, and I don't want you to think, wow, Tom didn't invite me, he must not like me, right?

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Dr. Paul White:

Mm-hmm.

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Tom Finn:

Or he must not respect me, or he must not feel like I bring additional value to time together. How do you do that in a thoughtful, delicate way?

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Dr. Paul White:

Well, I think there's a couple of issues. One is if you have a healthy relationship and I feel valued by you, it's a non-issue. Actually, globally speaking within relationships. All the little things that really create problems, being irritated over what size your monitor is, or whether you have a window, or your parking space, those all fall away when people feel valued. And that's actually one of the things, is that the purpose of appreciation isn't just to make people feel good, it's to create a better functioning organization. I can get back to that. But... the way you communicate that. One is I would schedule the team time during a time you know I can't come. That way it's like, hey, you know, we're getting together and I'm sorry you have this conflict, but that's what I do. And then secondly, I'd say, you know, the team wanted to get together and hang out and if you don't mind, we'd like just do it on our own, and we'll include you in the next one or whatever. So hopefully the person's mature enough and secure enough in themselves that they can deal with that. But the real way is to make sure that you're communicating value, that you value and appreciate your supervisor in other ways. And that's again, this isn't top down, it can go up, right? And I mean I've had examples of a receptionist showing appreciation to executive vice president for how he helped her with the situation, you know, it was going that way. So it doesn't have to create weirdness.

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Tom Finn:

I love the way you brought that up because we tend to think about all of this behavior as a manager or senior leader, having this communication pattern down, but it's equally important to go up. And what, what people don't know when they're earlier in their career is that it is really lonely to be at the top of an organization. I always say that the air is very thin at the top of an organization. Sometimes it's hard to breathe and having people that give a damn. uh... that are on your team inspire you to wake up earlier to put more effort into administer more love within the organization when you're at the top so it can be incredibly valuable to an organization to have everybody understanding how we behave what we're looking for in terms of loving your job and uh... partnering with your co-workers and thinking about things differently so you can be creative all of that can be bottom up instead of just top down

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Dr. Paul White:

Absolutely, I mean I grew up in the context of a family-owned business and I've worked with business owners as well as I am one and People that aren't in that position they see or at least infer the income and the prestige and all that kind of stuff But they don't always understand the pressure that The owner or the manager feels about making sure we're profitable so we can keep people not Either not have raises or have to lay people off

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Tom Finn:

What's not in your book that you've looked at data, thought about, that you've studied, and sort of contemplated that you haven't written about?

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Dr. Paul White:

So, you know, a key theme, and this has become more important recently with not just remote workers but virtual teams, is that I firmly believe that appreciation is person to person. And I was actually hired by a major tech company to help them. teach one of their international virtual teams how to show appreciation one another. I said I don't know if it's going to work and it didn't. I don't think it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't know somebody... Trying to show appreciation rather than just recognition for performance feels weird and you don't know what to say and you probably gonna miss the mark and You're sort of having to drag yourself through it So there's not sort of the self motivation to keep it going, right? And so one of the things I've come to believe is that virtual teams need to get together At least occasionally once or twice a year to see one another to relate to one another they're going to have a high turnover rate because we know that connectedness between people is far greater force for people staying. MIT did a study this past year that showed that the great resignation. appreciation and culture issues were 10 times more powerful in predicting whether somebody's going to leave versus compensation. And I think leaders often miss that and you've got to get your people together person to person because there's some neurosciences coming out that shows that if you and I were in the same room talking together versus this, the interaction would be different, the interaction in our brains would be different and more effective person to person. just some things that we can't communicate verbally, visually, without being present. And I think that's going to be important for teams and leaders and organizations to consider and hopefully act on.

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Tom Finn:

Well, I love that you wrote this book over a decade ago. It's incredibly relevant to today's times. And you're even thinking about how do we modernize our thinking and get together in this virtual world. If somebody, Dr. Paul White, wanted to get in touch with you and check out the book, if they wanted to take an assessment, if they wanted to get further into your research and your understanding of human behavior, how would they go about doing that?

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, two things. One is our sort of mothership website is appreciation at work.com. It's the word at not the at sign appreciation at work.com. And also, I'd be glad to offer to your listeners to email me at yes, Dr. Paul. So yes, drpaul at gmail.com. And just mention this podcast and I'll send them a sample report. And also, I'll include, we had an article written about us in New York Times and in Forbes, include that and they can ask questions as well. So that'd be the way.

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Tom Finn:

Well, that is wonderful. We'll put all of that in the show notes so that people can access it with just a quick click and they can get in touch with you. Congratulations, Paul on all of your success.

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Dr. Paul White:

Thank you.

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Tom Finn:

And thank you for doing this heavy lifting in understanding human behavior and how we should treat each other at work. We've got a long way to go, but I think understanding each other is a huge step in the right direction. So thank you for the work that you've done thus far and the work you'll continue to do.

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Dr. Paul White:

Yeah, thank you Tom for the opportunity to talk with you.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, and I promise not to send you a mug with candy in it. I swear, won’t do it.

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Dr. Paul White:

There we go. Thank you.

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Tom Finn:

Well, thank you for tuning in to the Talent Empowerment Podcast. We hope you've unpacked a few tips and tricks to love your job. I think Paul has done a great job giving us a few pro moves on how to behave in the workplace and what to look for. Get ready to dive back into all things career and happiness on the next episode. We'll see you then, my friends.

Tom Finn
Podcaster & Co-Founder

Tom Finn (he/him) is an InsurTech strategist, host of the Talent Empowerment podcast, and co-founder and CEO of an inclusive people development platform.

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