Can education and global employment go hand in hand? Jamie Haerewa is the Co-Founder and Managing Director of Agile HRO, an organization that empowers global employment with social conscience. In this episode, we talk about value systems and why sharing them with your team is essential for your business’s success, how not to put everything on one person’s shoulders, and why payroll is the one thing you can never get wrong.

🎙️Talking Points:

(1:23) What is Agile HRO?

(5:23) The importance of shared value systems

(7:51) Modern-day turnover 

(10:32) What is an Employer of Record (EOR)?

(20:35) The hardest thing to manage as a leader

🔗Connect with Jamie:

🔗Connect with Tom:

​​Tom Finn:

Welcome, welcome. And thank you for tuning in to the Talent Empowerment Podcast. We're here to help you love your job. We unpack the tools and tactics of successful humans to guide you towards your own career empowerment. I am your purpose-driven little host, Tom Finn, and on the show today, we have my friend, Jamie Haerewa. Jamie, welcome to the show.

Jamie Haerewa:

Thank you so much for having me.

Tom Finn:

Jamie, if you haven't had a chance to meet her, I'm thrilled to have her on the show and welcome Jamie. She is a highly accomplished professional in the realm of remote work and HR, serves as the managing director of a company called Agile HRO, we'll get into that in just a second, has over a decade of expertise in global PEO, we'll talk about that, global mobility, certainly important in today's market and economy, and workforce solutions widely regarded. as a leading authority in the field. And if you were wondering, her expertise spans across multiple continents with her work encompassing those in the United States, in Europe, Asia Pacific, Latin America, organizations really from all over the world. So before we get to your global prowess, let's get right into what is Agile HRO? And I know you're the founder, how did this come about for you?

Jamie Haerewa:

Great question. So I've worked in the industry for more than 14 years now. To take you way back, I started in Australia working for a workforce solutions company that was doing similar work but purely focused on the oil and gas industry. Fast forward into working with them and living in China, being the country manager of China. I then met my co-founder who was working with a competitor of mine. So we've always stayed in contact for, I think we've known each other for nine years now so a good like five, six years before actually getting into business together. Yeah, so we met in Singapore and, funny story, he tried to push me to go work on his team and I was like, hmm I kind of work in the same field, and it’s like same but different brand. So I said, like come back to me when you’ve got more of an entrepreneurial idea and happy to talk. And then sure enough, he was like “Hey, why don’t we replicate what we do now but aim it specifically towards the tech industry and or, other industries to be more industry agnostic and following the same model that we’ve been working with for the last 10 years.” So I thought that was like a really brilliant idea. So we started Agile based on that back in 2019. And then sure enough, what happens? The pandemic happened. There were a few short months after that. So that was like good timing on our part that we’d already started the business. And we did not know that it would actually be as successful due to that at the time. So yeah, that’s kind of the journey of how we built Agile.

Tom Finn:

Okay, so let's go into some of the fun stuff here. What I think I heard is you met your co-founder and got to know him for a handful of years before you ever launched a business together. So talk about that relationship and where it started, how it evolved, and when you had enough trust to really launch down this path with somebody else.

Jamie Haerewa:

So when you are working in the workforce solutions industry, it's quite a small niche, so you get to know people’s people by name, people by reputation. So I’ve always known that clients and ex employees of his had really talked highly of him and likewise with me. So hence why he reached out to see if I would work with him one. And yeah, we just, honestly, we just met one day when I was in Singapore, had a drink and then started building a mutual respect and friendship from there. And always stayed in contact to see where each other would end up. And I think based on our shared values and how we also work together, even though we never work together, but like how we approach things was very similar. So yeah, I had a lot of respect from him in the early years, that's for sure.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, so you said something that caught my ear, which was shared values. So this is a really important component for anybody that we work with. It doesn't matter if you work for BigCorp, that's global in nature or it's two people and a couple of computers trying to start something from scratch. Uh, you have to have shared values so that you can make decisions in a way that's aligned. Don't always have to agree, but you certainly have to have the same value system. So what about you and your co-founder really was the value system that you lean on to make decisions?

Jamie Haerewa:

Exactly. So we both shared the value of empathy and giving back. And so we wanted to build that into the core of agile, but also what we've known from working in the industry for a very long time is customer service. That's value like that we really were strong that we wanted to keep and that I know my mostly cliche to say, but the family value is making all you employees a family sounds super cliche for startups. But we did, have that because we're a people business at the end of the day. So you have to treat people with respect and empathy when you’re servicing clients or you're treating your own team. So I think collectively, we wanted to keep those values that we really respected in each other into the business as well.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, those are important critical data points for anybody building a business. And it's not cliche. Come on family, having a business like family. It's not cliche unless you've got that wacky weird uncle that you're trying to get rid of all the time. Uh, you know, then, then it's really family. Uh, if you've got one of those on your team, but I think this, this is really important part of the process is understanding what your value systems are. And again, I don't care if you're going from VP at one company to senior VP at another company, you need to make sure that your values align with your boss. Your values align with the team you're stepping into lead, that all of that makes sense, otherwise it's not gonna work. In the United States in 2022, the US Bureau of Labor showed 47% turnover, 47. Now I know we all think that turnover is like 10. We think that people leave jobs and it's about 10%. That's not the case anymore. People are moving and moving and moving in a new world and they're not taking bad cultures lightly. They're not taking bad bosses anymore, right? There's too much money out there and opportunity and they're moving on. How has that impacted your business? Because you're a global platform for Workforce Solutions. So talk about this sort of turnover and what that means to your business.

Jamie Haerewa:

So internally, we've been very fortunate to not have that. But that's because we started with a very, very lean team from the beginning. And it was only up until a year ago that we really increased our internal team head count to help service our growing clients. So we've been fortunate enough not to have any turnover in our business. What we're seeing this year though with clients and the big tech layoffs is not only affecting the US market, but it's affecting the global market. So you have Meta that liad off 16,000 people, 10,000 in the US and then 6,000 globally. So that trickles down to, you know, EOR, global employment companies like ours, where they’re looking at cutting costs across multiple different markets. So we’re seeing that effect because that’s a high turnover at the moment. But in regards to attrition rates from the previous years it hasn’t been as high as from what we've experienced.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, and so when you think about your clients, when they're looking at decreasing headcount, do you have to take a different stance, give them a different product, another solution? How do you help a client that's either increasing headcount around the world or decreasing headcount around the world?

Jamie Haerewa:

Hmm. It really depends on what their business goals are and why they're decreasing the headcount or increasing the headcount. So we've managed to build our business to be kind of like a one-stop shop. So it doesn't, you know, we don't lose clients if they decide to terminate an EOR, for instance, we can follow the process on to, if they set up an entity, we can manage their payroll. So that will still offer a different service for them or if they want to relocate employees, we’ll jump into the global mobility side. So visa, sponsorships, corporate, immigration, literally on the ground relocation management. So yeah, if it’s a case of their decreasing headcount through an EOR or they’re decreasing their headcount in general it depends because we can have on both scenarios and hiring or yes, working with them to find out how they can still achieve their business goals with perhaps decreasing their headcount.

Tom Finn:

So you mentioned this term EOR. Can you explain what an EOR is for those that don't know?

Jamie Haerewa:

Right. So EOR is an Employer of Record. So if a business is globally scaling and they don't want to set up or register an entity in a new country, they want to test the market then they can hire their first employee or first few employees through an employer record agency.

Tom Finn:

And that is something that your firm offers.

Jamie Haerewa:

Yes.

Tom Finn:

So let's talk about that just for a second so we can kind of understand the services, which will help us understand the market if we're not all in that space. So give us sort of the top three things that you do for your customers.

Jamie Haerewa:

So the top three things that we do for our customers is we are their employee records, so we will manage their employees' entire employment lifecycle from hiring, onboarding to termination if they want to terminate in the end. But also what we do is we help them grow and scale into a company in their new country. So... We'll help them incorporate and then we'll help them manage the payroll and then we'll help them set up all their HR processes to make sure that they’re compliant in the local country.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, this is a big deal for those of you that don't run and operate on a global scale. When you land in a country, there are so many different HR laws by country that you've gotta have an expert that really understands this stuff. And certainly for us, you know, Americans, or it really doesn't matter quite frankly, where you are in the world. When you're going to a new country, there's new laws and new rules, right? In the United States, those laws and rules are separated by 50 states. So it's actually even more difficult here. We don't have one US law that governs human resources and the way you treat employees, it's actually at the state level. So when you go into certainly Europe is that way, I believe Asia Pacific and Latin America are the same, Jamie, but you correct me if I'm wrong here that it's all different everywhere you go.

Jamie Haerewa:

Correct, it's all different. So every country in Asia is different. You have China that's similar to the states, every province can be different as well. They do have an overarching employment law, but they'll have state by state differences. Not as like different as the US has completely different state to state. Thank God, but yeah, every country is different.

Tom Finn:

So I imagine you've spent a little bit of time on an airplane. Do you have a favorite airline that we should all be thinking about when we're traveling internationally or do you just bounce from airline to airline?

Jamie Haerewa:

My favorite one in Asia was Singapore Airlines. I was doing that Shanghai to Singapore flight like every two weeks to the point that the steward will bring me business class food, which was amazing.

Tom Finn:

That means you've got a pretty good relationship with the folks at the airline, I always wonder when people work in these global scenarios and you spent some time in China and you've done business in multiple continents at this point, how much travel is too much travel? Did you get to a point where you said enough's enough?

Jamie Haerewa:

Oh yeah, even last year, like this year my New Year's resolution was travel less. So I've like parked myself in Portugal for the last six months going, I don’t want to leave.

Tom Finn:

For those of you that don't know, Jamie lives in Lisbon, Portugal, so don't feel bad for her. One of the most beautiful places on the planet. So we're not, no, you're not guilt tripping us here, Jamie. We know you're living the good life down in Lisbon. Beautiful, place, beautiful people, great culture, great food.

Jamie Haerewa:

But I have to ask your tip actually, what's the best airline to fly to the States because I have not found an amazing airline yet for the US.

Tom Finn:

Well, look, I'm with you on Singapore Airlines when you're going to Asia. Love that. Um, I, my mom's British, so I, and my parents split when I was a kid. So I lived in the United States with my dad and my mom moved back to the UK. So during that time period, um, my mom would only put me on British owned airlines. And so for about a decade, I flew Virgin Atlantic, you know, to and from LAX to London Heathrow. And I swear by Virgin Atlantic, I just, you know, if you're coming to the States, Virgin, you just can't go wrong. You're gonna have a good experience. It's gonna be, and the further up you go in the plane, the better it gets towards the front. But even back, you know, by the bathrooms, you're gonna have a good experience on Virgin. Although here's my other pro tip. If you're flying to India, and you've got a couple extra dollars, United Polaris class, and you've got to go overnight. And I'm not an American based airline guy, but United Polaris is on a different level. It is lovely if you have a chance. So a couple of ones to put in your back pocket there, Jamie.

Jamie Haerewa:

I'll take note of that. I flew Virgin. I used to do the Virgin Atlantic flight from Sydney to LA quite a lot. And unfortunately, sometimes I had to go the United flight.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, that is, it's different, right? It's a different experience. It might be the same price. They're doing a code share or what have you, but being on a Virgin plane with Virgin employees is very different than the heavy unions here in the United States that sort of dominates some of these jobs and cultures and can be a little bit more challenging. I'm probably getting in trouble for saying that, but I'm okay with it. So as you think about your business. Who are some of your biggest competitors? Who do you have fierce competition with? I mean, take a market, you could take Europe, for example, or is it the same competitor around the world?

Jamie Haerewa:

Great question. I mean, this industry has really boomed since COVID. Like I feel like last year, every month a new competitor was popping up in different markets. So, you know, you have your big UR, HRIS companies like Deal and Remote.com, who've done super well with their global expansion. And so I think those two would probably be, you know, the top pillar ones at the moment in the industry, when it comes to competitiveness. There’s also, you know, some smaller ones that are different from region to region. We, if we look at what Agile HRO does, because we are different to the likes of Deal and Remote.com, we would probably be more on the playing field of Velocity Global globalization partners where they do offer some similar service to us. Like the global mobility as well. And yeah, I would say those ones would be the ones that we come up against a lot. 

Tom Finn:

And do you have some competitive advantages from a, from a tactical standpoint that you lean on as an organization that help you win more than you lose?

Jamie Haerewa:

Yeah, I think the biggest thing for Agile is that we are not VC-Backed with Bootstrap, so it’s completely owned by me and my co-founder and our employees. So we can be more flexible when it comes to fees, but, however, we also maintain our fees in line with the service offering. I think also our service offering is quite different so we can support more foreign employees where our competitors don’t. And yeah, I think also on the corporate immigration side that we’ve become very, very, strong. And APAC has been our biggest advantage because we’ve started our business there. My experience comes from North Asia and my co-founder's experience comes from Southeast Asia. So we really dominated that market from inception. And I think that would be the biggest advantage. However, I think though that the competitors also offer their advantages. And that’s why we try to work with them in areas where they’re strong and we’re not and vice versa. So it’s all very, very nice on a competitive side.

Tom Finn:

Well, it's good because you're trying to get the best value and the best product and service for your customers. And if you have to lean on somebody else that has a little bit better positioning in a particular market to help, I think that's a great way to play ball. Because at the end of the day, if we're servicing our customers, in this example, the right way, and we're treating people with respect, dignity, like a family, trying to... do the right thing at the right time, then that's what creates longevity in business, right? That's your reputation. That's your, your business success. Um, that's what lives on with any luck, um, over, over years and months, uh, over time. So I'm with you on that. So tell me, tell me the hardest thing about your job being a business owner, being a founder what’s the hardest thing for you to manage?

Jamie Haerewa:

I think my own mental health sometimes like when you’re, it’s different from, you know, being a manager in a company to making the transition to be a co-founder of a company so sometimes, you know you’re at the top and everyone’s leaning on you so I think it’s super important anyone that is going to co-found their business to have, you know, someone that they can talk to, I have an executive coach for the last two years that’s really helped me and be my sounding board. So I think that is very key if you’re, you know, going to be a founder. Other challenges is I think building and growing a business from like you start in one way and then you have to change and navigate to another way and then again without sounding board you don’t know if you’re always going to make the right decision in your strategy, but you have to try it to see if it works or not. So that can be a little bit challenging. And then I think with the team going from being three people to suddenly we’re 12 people, that was a transition in itself. And what I really wanted to do is even though we're in a growth phase with our team was to make sure that we have the same values that we started with as a business. And so every year we do a strategy meeting with the team and, it was really great to do with the new team that’s in place or with new hires to see that the values still haven’t changed even though the team has grown because sometimes it can like, um, I don't know, maybe you'll add a new value because there's different opinions in the team, but it was really nice that when we did it last year in our third year with a bigger team, that those values haven't changed. So yeah, but transitioning to a small team, to a large team, that's challenging.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, I think I'm with you. When you go from the comfort and soft pillow of a corporate role to the hard and very uncomfortable wooden plank of being a founder. Uh, your sleep is not quite as comfortable. Your food doesn't taste quite as good. And there is no amount of alcohol on the planet that will calm you down. Uh, and once you realize that the journey is going to be a little rougher than you expected, you can actually start to appreciate, um, the cracks in the sidewalk that grow a little flower because that little flower feels good and you've been through it and it, and even though it might be small and feel insignificant to everybody else, to you, the founding team, the first three on board, it's magical, right? And that's the beauty of being a founder and being able to go through this process. Only other founders know, by the way. If you're sitting in a big corporate job and you're like, I totally get it, I know what they're going through, you don't. I promise you, I was one of those guys too. I don't know if you did this, Jamie, when you were in corporate roles, but I used to look at founders and go, yeah, I mean. It's easy, right? You just take your knowledge from your industry and you set up shop, you do it a little bit differently and boom, overnight success. Did you feel that way?

Jamie Haerewa:

Yeah, well, also kind of, but then you're also looking in, you think, oh my god, how, how did they do that?

Tom Finn:

Yeah, for sure. It's, um, it's, it's a wild ride. Not to say, look, there's no, there's no path that's right for everybody. We all have to choose our own path and hopefully we get close enough to pick the one that works for us. So that when we wake up and we're headed into retirement, we look back without regret. I think that's the most important thing. That's the way I look at the world is I never wanted to regret making a decision that was comfortable. And to be successful, really. in this world, in this global environment, you gotta get uncomfortable, right? I mean, you-

Jamie Haerewa:

Quickly.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, and quickly, and get used to being uncomfortable over and over and over and over again. So how do you deal with that? How do you deal with being uncomfortable, your mental health, keeping all this stuff above the line?

Jamie Haerewa:

I work out a lot. No, honestly, I think that is my meditation is making sure I get my gym session in once a day. That honestly does really help me. But I think just knowing that the trust is within you and trusting yourself that you’re doing the right thing is super key. I’m very lucky to have a co-founder I can discuss things as well, or he can share his ideas. So if I was alone in this journey that would be quite hard. And I know some founders are quite alone when they don’t have a co-founding team. But yeah, and then also relying on your management team that you've put in place. Like, you don’t have to have all the answers. And sometimes it's better that you don't. So... you know, leaning on them, like, what do they think about the decisions? Do they have an opinion about it? Would they do something different? Um, because I've hired these people to help me with build the business.  So it's, it can't all just be on one person’s shoulders.

Tom Finn:

So one of the things that comes up in that type of style for a manager is that you get a bunch of data back from your team. And then you disagree with it. So let's say you reach out to your team and say, I don't need to be the smartest person in the room, you get 12 opinions coming back at you and now you're looking at those opinions going, yeah, there's no way we're doing that. That's not the way we're going. Do you ever feel conflicted that you ask for help for help and feedback? And then you have to make a decision to go the other direction. Tell me about that.

Jamie Haerewa:

Um, yeah, it's, it's happened fortunately only a couple of time where, you know, that it’s not the right way to go on your gut and what all the data is pointing to, so then it’s an easy decision not to do it. Yeah, I mean, it hasn’t been too tough, honestly, in my experience.

Tom Finn:

Well, it sounds like when you look, when you pick the right people for your organization and you have the same values, which is really where you started the conversation today was around value systems and your co-founder and making sure that the values were right. With the team as it grew, all of that typically lends itself to faster decision making and more in alignment. in terms of decision-making because you don't have, um, the, the odd duck out there that doesn't fit with the values that everybody else does. Um, now that's good and bad. Sometimes it leads to something we study in business school called group think, right, where we all just think we're right because we think we're right. And we're all in the same room saying the same thing and no innovation happens. That's a, that's bad. Right. And sometimes somebody coming in and playing with that. adverse opinion is helpful, but when you're making decisions as a team, I imagine it's easier when everybody shares the same values, the same vision, the same idea of where we want to go. 

Jamie Haerewa:

And it’s also the environment that you’re creating within the team as well, are you giving authority for people in the positions that you’ve hired them to make those decisions so not everything has to always come back to the co-founder or the founder. So I think that’s really important, is creating the environment of trust and autonomy. Because sometimes I can bottleneck things and I always say this to you, don't let me be the bottleneck, just if you think it's the right decision, just do it.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, look, that is a great thing to say as a leader. Don't let me be the bottleneck. Um, look, I feel the same way. The, the challenge is you have to teach and teach people to be empowered. Most people have come from a place where they're told what to do. And there is certainly some legacy of that in our human history over the last 50 years, right? It doesn't really matter what continent you're on. There has been this top-down management approach, which was a style in the eighties, the nineties, the early two thousands, it was a thing, my friends. Uh, I didn't love it. Uh, most of us, um, Did not love it. I'm a I'm a I'm like the oldest millennial. I'm like the you know the oldest one So I just I just made millennial By a year, so I get it It's it's hard to take that old model and shift it into You go make a good decision. You're not gonna ruin the company whatever you do as long as it's ethical. It's the right thing You know, it meets our value system. You know, if you make the decision and it's wrong, likely we can fix it. Right. And that's a different way of looking at the world than people did 30 years ago. It was if you make the wrong decision, you're out of here and you better ask me six different times before you make that decision and I might yell at you. You know, if you make the wrong decision.

Jamie Haerewa:

Yeah, in a global environment where people are valuing, well, the shift has moved to employees value, you know, where they're working, how they're treated in their jobs, what the flexible environments are. There’s no time for that. Plus, we don’t have time to be sit there and monitoring them, you know, on a daily basis. Efficiency is key in a fast-paced environment. So the only thing that they can’t get wrong is payroll. That’s the only thing.

Tom Finn:

That's, that is true. I worked with a hospital system during COVID, like right at the end of COVID, and literally their payroll went down for six weeks. They were emailing employees and asking them how much they get paid. They were asking them how much they get paid. They said, well, I make about this. And then they were writing them a check, a manual check. And then at the end of the whole thing, they came back and had to do an audit, the, which took months and months and months, as you can imagine, they had about a thousand employees and they came back and then said, Oh, Hey, Jamie, you know, in this example, we overpaid you by, you know, about 2000 or whatever the number is. So we're just going to start deducting that from your next set of set of checks. I mean, it was an absolute nightmare. So for those of you in HR, you know, payroll is key. You got to get that one right first.

Jamie Haerewa:

Payroll is key. Honestly, you could give the best service in the world against competitors. You mess up payroll once. Yeah. You're done. I'm sorry.

Tom Finn:

You're done. Yeah. I hope that payroll company got fired. I would think, you know, leaving a thousand person organization in the lurch for six weeks probably means you should be replaced at some point. But, anyway, this isn't a, this isn't a show about sad stories. This is, uh, this is a show about uplifting things and empowerment. So where do you, um, get your drive and your empowerment from? You've got a coach, you exercise, you stay focused on your daily routine. You, you deliver. values to your organization and you delegate so that others can make decisions. Where does all that inner energy come from?

Jamie Haerewa:

Great question. I feel like Agile's purpose and my purpose is to really make the global employment, well, to revolutionize the global employment. So I have, my energy comes from how we look at the space, different products that we can do and I love the strategy and innovation side of what we can do with the global employment. And you can always be innovating. So I’m more driven about that area. So tying into out core business is, we do have a social mission that we’ve implemented from the very beginning of founding Agile. And that’s we sponsor a child’s education for one year for every employee that’s hired globally through Agile. And that was because we were hiring a lot of really talented, highly skilled people within APAC when we started the company and with APAC, Cambodia has the biggest deficit of education because, you know, all the educators and scientists were massacred. So the generation now is just bringing up the education level. So there’s a lot of great schools now in Cambodia. So we really wanted to tie in with our values and give back. And so that’s where we’ve partnered with an organization called Caring for Cambodia to sponsor the children’s education for one year. And obviously, if an employee stays with us for three years, then we get three years education sponsored. So it’s our service that we’re delivering to ensure that we give back. So me and the entire team are really driven by that because we have a goal. We want to reach 100 years of education by the end of next year. So that drives us. And the team even said, like, OK, if we reach it, for our annual trip we want to go to Cambodia to, you know, meet the kids that we’ve been sponsoring, play with them. They could have said, like, oh let’s go skiing in Tokyo but they were like, no we want to go to Cambodia. I’m like that’s amazing.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, I love mission-driven founders. I love people with a heart and soul for others. It's just so important, you know, we live in a global world, and if we don't believe it, 10 years ago, you better believe it now. I mean, this is, we can all reach out and touch each other and anything happening in Cambodia can show up on your front doorstep tomorrow. And so we have a global responsibility to raise the level of education, support people with mental health, build the right communities really around the world. And I love that you're taking your workforce solution brain. and bringing that to all of these different markets, including the kids in Cambodia. Jamie, you're an absolute rock star. I appreciate all the great work you're doing.

Jamie Haerewa:

Thanks and hope that everyone listening can help us reach that goal of 100 years.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, I think somebody out there will definitely want to do that. So if they wanted to get in touch with you, how would they go about doing that?

Jamie Haerewa:

Um, they can visit our website, AgileHRO.com, or feel free to contact me on LinkedIn. I'm sure you'll put my name down in the podcast.

Tom Finn:

Yeah, I think we've got some show notes somewhere. We could whip something up.

Jamie Haerewa:

Great.

Tom Finn:

Maybe a link even where they can just click on it. We could probably do that for you. Yeah, no problem.

Jamie Haerewa:

See you.

Tom Finn:

Well, Jamie, thank you so much for joining the show. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on today. And best of luck with meeting the goal of 100 years of education in the next year. So lofty goal, but I'm sure you're going to hit the target.

Jamie Haerewa:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been really fun, Tom.

Tom Finn:

Well, thank you for joining the Talent Empowerment Podcast. We hope you've unpacked a few tips and tricks to love your job. Get ready to dive back into all things career and happiness on the next episode. We'll see you then my friends

Tom Finn
Podcaster & Co-Founder

Tom Finn (he/him) is an InsurTech strategist, host of the Talent Empowerment podcast, and co-founder and CEO of an inclusive people development platform.

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